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Motherhood. The feelings that this word can evoke are powerful, joyful and sometimes painful for women. As I have walked the path of infertility, more often than not I have felt the pain of not having children of my own and of not being considered a “mother.”
For some, having children is the only definition of motherhood available. In recent months I have come to see that this very narrow definition of motherhood is a false definition. Sidney J Harris once stated, “The common fallacy among women is that simply having children makes them a mother which is as absurd as believing that having a piano makes one a musician.”
In the Pearl of Great Price, we read, And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many. (Moses 4: 26)
I love the fact that Adam and the Lord called Eve a mother before she had any children at all. Eve was the mother of all living because she endured the fall, and it is thru the fall that mankind exists. As women we were foreordained to be mothers on earth, just as men were foreordained to be priesthood holders. With such a foreordination comes great opportunities.
In a talk given by Sheri Dew entitled Are We Not All Mothers?, she reflects on the calling of motherhood and the great responsibility that all women have to be mothers, regardless of their stage in life. She states:
Our Father has entrusted us as women with His Children, and He has asked us to love them and help lead them safely past the dangers of mortality back home.
Notice there is nothing said about whether these children are the fruit of our wombs or not. We are to love and lead them regardless of who they belong to.
Sister Dew continues, “I have wrestled with what the doctrine of motherhood means for all of us.” In the same fashion I have wrestled with what the doctrine of motherhood means for me personally. There are many women in the Church who thru no fault or choice of their own do not have children. In the very child and family oriented LDS culture not having children is sometimes equated with unrighteousness, or unfaithfulness and many times the childless sister is looked on with pity and as an object of sorrow. Unfortunately many childless sisters will take these sentiments personally and do feel unrighteous, unworthy and sorry for themselves. They feel that because they have no children, they have nothing to offer. Having children will not make you more righteous or more worthy; and having children is not a reward given out for good behavior by the Lord. Like Eve, we are all mothers. To see childlessness as an obstacle in fulfilling the Lord's commandment and ordination of women is false and wrong. He has promised us, “I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them than they may accomplish the thing which he hath commanded them.” (1 Nephi 3:7)
My desire to have children will never go away, and the pain of not having my own children will always be with me, but there is much I can do to mother and to be a mother without children of my own. The fact that I am a school teacher has put hundreds of children in my path. I have had the chance to nurture, love, and to teach many of our Father's children. One particular student stands out in my mind. Neal was a senior in one of my government classes the first year I taught. He was bright boy, but not very motivated and most of the school year he was failing. He never turned in homework, and rarely made an effort in class. Despite his lack of interest in school, I knew I could not give up on him. Many times I would sit by him as he did his work in class, just to make sure he did it. I would call his home to encourage him and on the rare occasion he did ask for help, I was there, with out judgment to help. A few days before graduation, and after I had passed out the final grades, Neal came to me and asked to sign my yearbook. When he had gone I found the page where he had written:
Thank you for helping me so much. With out you I couldn't graduate, and because my mom is so sick with cancer she couldn't help me, but you did, and now I can graduate and go on my mission.
Neal did go on a mission, and came home honorably. He was married in the temple and now has a family of his own. I was a part of that, and I know that I was fulfilling part of my motherhood by helping this boy.
With that said, there are many areas in which we can all be mothers. For those of us without children, we have to be a bit more creative in how we fill our calling of motherhood. As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we made the following covenant when we were baptized (Mosiah 18:8–9):
Now as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light. Yea and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witness of God in all times and in all things and in all places.
This scripture gives us a clear road map of how we as women can fulfill our ordination as mothers. All of us have numerous opportunities to serve, to help, to listen, to talk, to teach, to love, to lead and to bless the lives of others. We do this as we visit teach, as we bear our testimonies, as we listen to the promptings of the spirit, as we share our talents, as we magnify our callings and as we diligently strive to be honorable and good women.
The world in which we live can be a bad place. The adversary wants us to fail and has put many stumbling blocks in our path. Sister Dew calls righteous women, “The Lord's secret weapon.” I want to be a good weapon in the arsenal of the Lord (dare I say uzzi??). I want to love and lead His children back home and be part of motherhood. Being a mother and participating in motherhood is more than just having children. Every woman is a mother, and every woman has been given the spiritual gifts, talents and power to fulfill the calling of motherhood. Opportunities are all around us for mothering, we need to look for these opportunities and when we find them embrace them as we embrace all of our Father's children and help them to return home to Him.
Alison Moore Smith is a 61-year-old entrepreneur who graduated from BYU in 1987. She has been (very happily) married to Samuel M. Smith for 40 years. They are parents of six incredible children and grandparents to two astounding grandsons. She is the author of The 7 Success Habits of Homeschoolers.
Very nice column. Thanks!
I’m glad you wrote this post. It’s something I think about a lot.
As an FYI, Sheri Dew’s name was misspelled. Thought you might want to know.
I have always loved that talk by Sherri Dew! Your article has really made me appreciate all those who have mothered my children. There’s no way I could do this alone. What a gift it’s been to have righteous women in my life who are willing to step up and be an example, teach a lesson, build a relationship, and love my children.
I love this and I’m so impressed and so GLAD that you have been able to see passed the pain to experience the joy of motherhood..and to realize that IS what it is. I think many of us don’t realize the huge impact we CAN have on others, if we just open our hearts and spirits to them.
Oh how touched I was when I read this article. It clearly manifests our true divinity we not only have received from our Father in Heaven but I believe our Heavenly Mother as well. In humbled respect and reverence, I often ponder of her gifts and talents she displays through her mothering of all her children. What a precious charge we all have to not only be mothers to our own offspring but to other children outside our own families. It is through this mothering we will raise happy successful wards, communities and youth programs. In our day, School children, children from other cultures, social and economic depths have benefitted from this “Mothering”. I strongly believe , in some ways, it is this “Divine Mothering” that will also help to bring Zion together.
Beautifully said and written for all us women who have truly struggled with “empty arms” in our life!
I LOVE LOVE LOVE this doctrine! I have been so interested in the past while to realize that Sister Dew was not the first person to address this issue, although she is the first person I remember addressing it. Pat Holland had talked about this at Women’s Conference a few years before Sister Dew’s talk, and I was very interested to recently read these similar principles in a book called Priesthood and Church Government, which was the Church’s handbook on priesthood in the earlier part of the 20th century. So I’m feeling that much more moved and passionate about these doctrines, and grateful when people will share that point of view and embrace it in such a way that it makes a difference in their lives. It’s beautiful doctrine and I believe that if we grasped it more, we would be happier as women all around, for lots of reasons.
I will add that this doctrine has made me want to be a better aunt, sister, friend, neighbor, neighborhood mom, stranger at the store, etc. etc. etc. If we are to nurture “all living” that can be in any capacity, formal and permanent or informal and temporary. When I have a neighbor child knock at the door, this doctrine runs through my mind before I open the door, and has had an impact on how I behave. I still have a long way to go, but I believe this doctrine has the power to change my behavior in a significant way. I know it has changed my heart and continues to do so.
Thank you again for this post!! Wonderful.
Thanks got it.
Mlinford…I am interested to know what that old church handbook said about this. Please share!!! 🙂 What impressed you about what you read in it? You’ve peaked my curiosity.
A thought occurred to me while reading this. Not only can those without children mother others, but those with children need the help – both from others with children and others without. One of my biggest fears in relation to my children is the knowledge that at some times of their lives, they will be without me to help them, whether by their own choice or not. As a mother, one of my most fervent prayers is that when this happens, there will be a righteous someone my children can turn to to stand in my place when I cannot be there. There are so many detrimental influences in the world, I hope and pray that Heavenly Father will send people like you – people who have recognized their power for mothering in the life of my child and who have chosen to wield that power righteously. Sometimes those without children are more aware and sensitive to a child’s needs because of their own longing for children. They are put in a position where they can choose to perceive a child in need and be a building force in that child’s life and in the kingdom of God.
For me, having a child requires an immense measure of trust in the Lord and in His human tools.
I like your article alot eden. Thanks.
Thanks for the reminder. I guess I should pay more attention to the “mothering” that I am already doing… with nieces and nephews, and the YW in my ward.
It’s not so much a remider as a statment. I know how out of it I have felt and been made to feel because I don’t have kids–crappy (can I say that here on MM??). I felt the same way when I was a YSA approaching 30–with no hope, at the time, of getting married. One day I looked around the room of my singles ward RS and thought, “What is wrong with any of these girls? They are educated with masters degrees, have served missions, own homes and business and do good in the world! Why is it because they don’t have husbands they are less of people?” One day when I was feeling sorry for myself and my childless state I remembered that though and I applied it to my situation now. I am educated, have a career, have talents, speak foreign languages and can do alot–just because I don’t have to stop a change a diaper should not make a difference.
But the real point, is that there are too many women who suffer silently thinking they are nothing because they don’t have kids. They need to know they are not alone, there are others out there in the same sitation and that they can do amazing things if they take themselves out of the boxes other people have created.
Take for example you Sassy, you went to Girls Camp. I remember when I was a camp squirt I loved the Camp ladies–I didn’t know their situations, but I loved them and all the fun times we had. Now, I wouldn’t go camping if you paid me, but that’s another story all together.
that they can do amazing things if they take themselves out of the boxes other people have created.
…and that they have allowed themselves to believe in. The boxes only have an effect if we believe them and figuratively climb into them.
I think it’s important for us all to own the misunderstandings and labels that we let ourselves fall prey to, and not just say that it’s someone else’s fault that we feel of less worth because we don’t do or have or are __________. It’s taken me nearly 4 decades to learn this concept and really start to grasp it and seek to apply it, but no one can make us feel anything about ourselves. We allow that to happen. It’s hard to change those patterns in our thinking and behavior. I think it’s an important element of what agency means — to act and not be acted upon (a la 2 Ne. 2:27).
And I imagine you won’t disagree with all of that, but I’m one who likes things like that said out loud. So forgive my vocalization. 🙂 I just think a lot of us (as humans, because this is human nature) struggle with tying our worth to something external and measurable rather than to our divine heritage and the potential we have because of the Atonement. It’s a crusade I’m on to try to detach myself from equating my worth to external things and instead approaching my life with a spiritual foundation. (Even as a mom with children, because I “only” have three (and have wanted more and allow my worth to be tied to what people can see), I have to fight hard to keep myself from getting down because I am somehow less of a person with fewer children. It’s hard to get out of that mindset, and I think these kinds of doctrinal discussions are some of the most important keys to doing so. So, again, thank you for this post.
You’re welcome mlinford.
I agree with you as well. We do create boxes for ourselves. I know I have. When I stopped going to RS for a while its because I thought I was not worthy to be in there, it’s because I felt like I had nothing to offer. When I was able to overcome this, and my crippleing anxiety over pregnancy loss I was able to go back and feel comfortable. I still have my days and I have to keep a low profile but slowly I’m coming around.
Another point I think I”ll make is that the number of children a person has is not a reflection on righteousness or worthiness either. I have several friends who have one, two and only three children because of medical reasons. They are awsome mothers, great people and really apprecate what they have. It is very stinging to hear other sisters say things like “You’re not being a good Mormon if you only have 1 kid (or 2 or 3), people should have more.” Well, I’m sure we would if we could, but we can’t so we won’t and the Lord won’t think any less of us for it.
I feel compelled to react to these past blogs. I too agree that there is a bit of “self torchering” involved with being childless. It’s very hard to “stand tall” amongst those who have the capabilities of doing something you spent YOUR ENTIRE LIFE preparing to become one day. Even further, when others try to reach out by sharing that they “understand” our natural reaction is “go away” “you don’t understand” and “we no longer can relate therefore you go your way and enjoy life, I’ll go my way and suffer alone.” Although it may not be healthy to react this way there are so many dynamics to being childless that it is overwhelming. I’ve dealt with all the issues you can imagine in one’s life ( death, illness, miscarriage, abuse, losing everything in life ) and I feel I have conquered these tremendously. I’ve even had many occasions to be a public speaker on all these trials. But ladies, there is just something about being childless. Nothing, (not even almost losing my life) compared to this great trial in my life. No one really understands this until they experience it. And yes, it is through the Atonement that one can truly heal. He may or may not totally lift that burden from our shoulders. But I wonder… and I know many will agree… When I went through this , there was absolutely NOTHING any other human being could say that could really make me “snap out of it” . I tended to take what ever anyone would try to say wrong, even if their intentions were so good. So yes. There is a lot of learning and growing in this process. There is also a lot of forgiveness and gratitude. But most of all there is one who understands and has felt the pain and he is there waiting patiently everyday. Anyone going through this now needs to know YOU WILL MAKE IT!!!!
Heather,
I hope no one is saying to anyone that they should “snap out of it” when they hurt. Working through our trials is a process and ultimately the only way to really get through these kinds of trials is as you say — to look to the Savior, who understands all. My mom once said that everything we go through should (or at least can) point us to the Savior and His Atonement.
And I hope that in my comment it didn’t seem like I was saying that the pain isn’t real, or that it can just be thought away, because from my limited experience I know how real it is. But that is different than putting ourselves in a “less worthy” category because of our trials (e.g., the lack of desired children), which only adds more unnecessary pain when we are doing all we can and are asked to suffer the trial of unfulfilled dreams.
east-of-eden, thank you for your comments. For me, the pain doesn’t usually come from what others say, but just from my own desires that are not being fulfilled at this time, and my own expectations of “what being a good Mormon Momma ‘should’ look like.” That includes having several children, having my life testify of how I feel about the commandment to multiply and replenish. But therein lies the rub – the external is not what matters to the Lord. He cares about our hearts. And I think it’s a good reminder to not look at someone else’s life and judge. It’s easier said than done on all fronts, IMO.
mlinford,
Oh – I absolutely agree with you so sorry if that seemed as if though I was targeting your comments. I felt what you said was articulate and yes precise. I was simply trying to help other people understand that process that we “go through” before we take on the change of accepting the fact that we are “misunderstanding” others. I think you write so beautifully!!! I was just pointing out specifics and giving a voice to what I and countless others have felt too. I should have pointed that out more. Sorry. I do not undermind your compassion nor your genuine nature. I love what your mother said. Aren’t we so lucky to have a savior that truly helps us with these hardships?
Also, in response to feeling we are in a “less worthy” category, I feel that’s true. Sometimes it starts with a feeling of the unknown that may result in not being able to progress in this life. And thus the “less worthy” reaction. Simply because by nature we women tend to compare. Yet another stumbling block to conquer!
I went to a class at this year’s BYU Women’s Conference on infertility which was so great. One of the sisters who spoke nailed it one the head, she said–(and I am paraphrasing) it’s not that I’m upset with the happiness of others, or that I hate other peoples kids etc, it’s that I am sad, mad, frustrated, upset by my own expectations, and situation. And for me at least, that’s where the unworthy feelings come in.
Mlinford, I really appreciate what you said about the atonement. I really believe too that our trials point us toward the atoment. I know this, and I can’t put all the reasons down here, but I know this is true.
HIya, I just noticed that this article was also posted at your own blog. Reference and links are good, but posting the same article at two places will cause a real SEO hit to both. In other words, Google thinks you’re cheating and will dump both of our listings. :/ I should have been clear about that, but I just haven’t had time to finish the author FAQ. :/
Hmmmm. This has been an interesting discussion. I guess for me there was only a short period of time where I actually felt unworthy because of my infertility. It involved compulsive reading of Lectures on Faith and bawling in the bishop’s office with snot running down my face. Yes, not a pretty picture:).
What I do fall into is the trap of expectations. The expectation that I would be a mother and that it would happen when I wanted it to. The expectation that others somehow could understand my pain and not say insensitive things. The expectation that I will never feel envy or sadness at the announcement of a friend’s pregnancy… that I should be a better person than that. Just to name a few examples. And when I, or someone else does not live up to my expectations, that is when I get frustrated.
For me, this post by J was about shifting my expectations. If I subscribe (which up until this point, I have) to the narrow definition of motherhood, then I would continue to be frustrated since I remain childless. But if my expectation is that I have opportunities to help, guide, bond with and teach children… then the possibilities for happiness are boundless. Seeing the children in my life as an outlet for my “motherly energy”, instead of reminders of what I lack in my life is a significant paradigm shift that has already begun to bring me a sense of peace.
Ok, I fixed it. But if this is the case you really need to make your style guide–whatever it was, a priority. To me blogging and writing on the internet is about as rule free as it gets, so to I guess stay wiith in the rules I need to know what they are. Thanks
I’m trying. I’m sorry you didn’t know about that. It isn’t *my* rule. It’s Google’s rule and would hurt your blog probably more than mine since it’s (I think) a bigger percentage that would be deemed duplicate. Some theories are that it might just think YOUR blog is the duplicate and just hit you for it (size again), but that might not be true.
My style guide just has to do with quotes and dashes and things like that. No big. The other stuff to be included is stuff that’s entirely outside my control and it just to fill in on search and other things they might not have researched themselves. :/ Thought you’d want to know. Sorry to cause you an inconvenience.
It’s funny you say that my blog would be hit…ticks on my sitmeter are the last thing I care about, I just write to write. Anyway, it was not an inconvenience. Now I know, just make a linky-loo. Thanks.
I’m really not trying to be a pain, even though I think you think I am! :/
No I don’t, really I don’t. Please don’t think that. 🙂
Good! 🙂
This article has been so helpful to me . I have 7 step children and everyone thinks its a fantastic consolation to me, but I am constantly reminded that I am not their mother, as yesterday, when my eldest stepdaughter picked me up because I dared to say my CHILDREN instead of STEP! CHILDREN. She may not have meant to cause pain, but i had to confirm to her that I understood that I am not her mother, and I recognise who their mother is. I agree that many people dont understand our pain, make insensitive remarks and do expect us to snap out of our self pity. How comforted I was to find other women who have the same feelings of unworthiness. I have felt “punished” by Heaveny Father and it has been difficult to overcome this obstacle
What a wonderful article!
If women truly understood and embraced their roles AS women, and how they truly are mothers, and what “mothering” truly means, whether or not they’ve actually given birth, can you imagine how different this world would be?
I don’t pretend for one second, that understanding the role of women and how we’re all mothers, could ever fully compensate for the pain and feelings of loss that women must feel when they desperately WANT to have children and can’t. But there really IS joy in ‘mothering’ children, whether or not they came from one’s own womb.
Before I married, I worked as a nanny for a little girl named Merritt. I was only her nanny for a year, but I became SO attached to her. I can say with sincere honesty that I LOVED that little girl, and felt in many ways like she was my own. After all, I was the one who was with her for most of the day. Her own mother was only with her for about 2 1/2 hours each day, long enough for dinner and bedtime, but I was “mom” for 9 hours each day. I was the one getting her up in the morning, dressing her, feeding her, changing her diapers, going on walks with her, going to the park, playing games, singing songs, reading stories– even when she was sick, I was the one who was with her all day. When her family moved it nearly broke my heart. I kept in contact with her parents for awhile, and when they went on vacations for their anniversary, I was the one they called to come and stay with Merritt, even though I was 6 hours away.
On a seperate but related issue, I always appreciate other women who help to mother, look out for, teach and even correct my children. I know some women have a problem with that, but I always appreciate it. (As long as they’re correcting within reason, of course)
I remember walking into the cultural hall after our meeting block one Sunday, just as another sister was correcting my children for running in the gym. She came up to me afterwards, almost apologetically, saying that she hoped I didn’t mind that she’d fussed at them,
(she wasn’t nasty, just direct and firm) but that she’d heard me tell my kids before that weren’t allowed to run in the gym after church, even if other kids were doing it (and that’s pretty much what she’d said to them). So when she saw them running in the gym she called them on it.
I told her I was GLAD that she did– that I appreciated it and would HOPE that other sisters would intervene if they ever saw my children doing anything that was out of line, or something that she knew I wouldn’t want them doing.
My kids have also been blessed to have some FANTASTIC primary teachers. Teachers that really magnify their callings, and even carried their calling beyond Sunday at Primaryl– having the kids over for an activity, taking them to the zoo, sending them letters during the week–(my kids LOVE getting mail). Two of those teachers do not have their own children, one is married but is unable to have children, and the other has never married. But they have truly “mothered” my children, and I’m so grateful to them for that.
Patricia,
I’m sorry your step kids don’t think of you as a mother too. How long have you been married to their father? My hope for you is that eventually the relationship will warm up and they will see you as a mother as well.
I don’t think anyone can truly understand anyone’s pain or situation. We can see the “prefect family” at church and assume all is well, but it may not be well behind closed doors. There are many seemingly perfect women who feel less than worthy for their imperfections and problems. It is also good to remember that whenever we say something we need to think of the impact our words might have on that person. We never know what “jokes” are not funny. And as far as snapping out of things….well you need to take the time to deal with your feelings as issues as you see fit, not on someone elses’ time table.
You’d be surprised at how many of us share the same problems and difficulties. Our situations might be different, but so many women are suffereing.
I’m glad my article helped you. Don’t feel you are alone in your struggles as a mother. And whatever you do, don’t feel guilty or unworthy. As long as you are doing your best, the Lord makes up the rest. 🙂
For those who continue to perpetuate the theme that the highest calling of womanhood is
motherhood, please do not forget that a higher calling of any woman exists which is to love and to serve the Lord with all of her woman ?s heart and all of her soul. By so doing a childless woman is the equal of any other woman on the face of the earth. She need not bow her head in shame before mothers of the flesh, or mourn for lack of children. All children belong to the Lord and not to the mothers who bore them. The spiritual seeds a childless woman can sow may blossom and bear fruit in each and every child and person she touches, and her influence can spread far beyond. Instead of being called barren, the fruit of her garden may shine forth in fullness and glory, and she with it. Instead of being a mother to only a few, she may be called a mother to many. The Lord will not forget her or shun her if her heart is with Him.
Welcome to you, hucklemist. 🙂
hucklemist, I think this is actually a key part of the message of the post. You hit it dead on. Serving the Lord and turning our hearts to Him will also cause us to turn our hearts to nurture those around us, whether or not we have children of our own at this stage and time of life. Motherhood is not just about bearing and rearing children, but about nurturing Gods children. You said it all beautifully. But I just wanted to reiterate that we here agree with you.
Thank you Alison & mlinford…I too know the sting of being among a group of people where all the praise and lauding is reserved for ?mothers ? and only occasionally, almost as an after thought, are motherless women given a few crumbs from the table. The men are equally guilty
of this offense, reserving their highest praise for women who have succeeded in actually bearing children while withholding the same from childless ?mothers ?.
I call it an offense, because it is. It is especially offensive and unkind to younger women who have not yet come to grips with their infertility…or their husband ?s infertility. Infertility is an equation of 2. I think it is a pretty well ?known ? that men are reluctant to advertise their inability to father children.
To mourn for the children you did not bear, or to mourn because you or your husband can not bear children is not self-pity. It is actual mourning..pure and simple. Couples need help, comfort, and support in these situations…not derision for ?whining about their lot ? as so many choose to define it. If a woman has married a man for time and eternity..is she to break that bond because her husband is infertile? Or vice-versa… I remember a time when people would
bend over backwards to keep from offending anyone…but now it seems that any offence a person takes from the actions of others is quickly dismissed by the offender as the fault of the person who has been offended.
Thoughtlessness and cruelty is still prevalent and those lifted in their pride by their ?accomplishments ? may do well to humble themselves somewhat. IMHO
hucklemist,
The past couple of days I have read and re-read your blogs. Basically I have one thing to say: WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU TO ” VERBALLY DEFINE” my mourning to the people in my life! You could have been my mouthpiece!!! I agree fully and I quote, “To mourn for the children you did not bear, or to mourn because you or your husband can not bear children is not self-pity. It is actual mourning..pure and simple. Couples need help, comfort, and support in these situations…not derision for ?whining about their lot ? as so many choose to define it. Huck, I actually myself have believed, at times, that I must truly be weak and selfish for mourning over this issue in my life. I have even labeled myself as a “self-pittier”!
I have had family members who have criticized me for truly suffering over my infertility. Some have even said that I lacked a certain amount of faith. Isn’t it amazing how “blissful ignorance” can really ruin people’s perceptions and the unwillingness to accept other people’s trials as perhaps a learning experience for us all? Thank you for validating what I wished I could have had the courage to verbalize to countless others.
Um… can I pay you to speak on my behalf next time I have an argument with someone? 🙂
Oh and by the way, Hucklemist, welcome to this wonderful web-site. I feel we should give Alison and the other talented women who contribute much of their insights to this haven a great big hug. HHHHHHUUUUUUUGGGGGGG! Sorry, I think I squeezed a little hard that time.
I truly believe that it is possible to mourn the loss of the children you didn ?t bear with the same intensity as people do who have suffered the loss of children they did have. I used to dream about my children all of the time when I was younger. One little girl with dark curly hair in particular. The other children would be playing together and she would stop and turn around and smile at me. Who can say she isn ?t waiting for me. I really feel that she in particular is waiting for me and that I will ?know ? her someday. Because of her and the other children in my dreams I began to overcome my mourning and intense yearning and now look forward to seeing and being with my children. With patience I believe all childless mothers will have their children to care for and to love, and will be with them in time. One should pay no attention to thoughtless insensitive remarks made by those who are perhaps a little too comfortable with their station in life and are not able to walk in another ?s shoes – who unwittingly add to another person ?s suffering. I sometimes believe those people suffer from a lack of suffering. Also, one should not harden their heart because of them..the Lord loves a tender heart. Take His hand, and listen to and follow Him. He has so much waiting for the pure and tender in heart…I really believe this. Each childless mother should love and nurture those she can for now (for practice 🙂 while looking forward to His promise and to her children who await her. And shame on those who call the pining of a tender heart self-pity.
Heather – thank you ….And a big Huuuuuuugggggggg to you all.
I truly believe that it is possible to mourn the loss of the children you didn ?t bear with the same intensity as people do who have suffered the loss of children they did have.
Even as a momma of three, I have felt this mourning for the other children we thought we would have but haven’t (yet. but running out of time) because of unexpected health issues. I’ve had to mourn a lot of things about my life because of this trial. It’s hard.
I have to think about that hucklemist. I’m not sure it’s something I can determine unless I’ve had to walk both paths.
Every time I miscarried, it was horrible. I mourned those babies. And when it seemed like I just wouldn’t be able to carry them I, like Michelle, mourned those babies we had hoped for but never had. But my sister lost two babies (twins), one during delivery and the other seven months later. Another niece was killed at seven when she was hit by a car. I’ve had friends lose children to disease and accident. Personally–only speaking for myself–I don’t think what I went through in mourning was anything like what these others experienced.
Heather
I too have miscarried, and I have had a child taken from me. When I was in my early 20’s an Indian girlfriend of mine was off in college in California…fighting the ?Indian rights wars ? and became pregnant with a child. She brought her baby to Idaho for me and told me to take him and raise him because she just couldn ?t continue what she was doing and take care of him. She said her parents were both ill. I had him for 11 months and then one day her father came to the door and told me they were well now and had come for the baby. It nearly killed me to turn him over. There was nothing on earth I could do, but to do as they requested. The law was totally on their side. I had just been ?babysitting. ?
I don ?t mean to attempt to split hairs on which group of women mourn the most ..I simply want to point out that the suffering and mourning of childless mothers can be extremely intense and is not self-pity any more than the mourning of losing a living child is self-pity.
The one thing about infertility is the finality of it. It ?s not only that you may loose one of your precious children, it ?s the fact that you will never have one on earth to loose. You will have no posterity, no children and no grandchildren -that from Adam and Eve to you…you are the end of the line. I know that having other children will not ?replace ? the child who has been lost by death, but there can be other children if the woman is still in the child-bearing years…or she may have grandchildren from other children …But to know that you will ?never ? have a child can be truly devastating. Each person has differing coping levels on dealing with pain and loss. Many women have a tougher inner core and don ?t seem to suffer much – even with the physical loss of a child – and seem to continue on finely. I have known women like this. My brother ?s fiancee was killed in a car accident. It nearly killed her father…he absolutely mourned and suffered for several years. The mother thanked God for allowing her to have her daughter as long as she did and quietly awaits their reunion. It was her only daughter…she had 3 or 4 sons. I maintain that it is very unkind to deride childless women for being self-pitying when they are actually mourning & suffering. The same could be said for women who have lost a physical child…that their mourning is merely self-pity and they need to get on with it. I believe both approaches are wrong.
I think that dismissing everyone else ?s grief as self-pity has taken root in our society. There seems to be an intolerance and bitterness against those who suffer…as if it is always the result of the sufferer ?s own doing or the result of some ?sin ? he or she has committed. It has become a convenient way for non-sufferers to wall themselves off from the sufferers….hence not ‘seeing’ & feeling no responsibility to help the sufferer. That is not the Lord ?s way. Imho
P.S. Non-sufferers translates to be: non-experiencers of the same plight or experiencers of the same plight who
mourn and suffer in different ways. : >)
Ooops…I meant to address the above to Alison…but it’s for Heather, mlinford, etc…:>)
Hucklemist, thanks….your comments further caputred what I was trying to say when I wrote this post originally.
There are alot of women (and men) who are in various states of infertility (primary and secondary), childlessness and so on, who do not feel they are needed or wanted or that they can make a positive contrbution to the kingdom because they don’t have a child!
Like I said in the essay, I’m a school teacher—I’ve had hundreds of kids pass thru my door over the years, each of them–even the boogers–were precious to me.
It’s also a dangerous trap to fall into the game of “who’s suffering is greater” which I think many people can do. It’s important to not try and ‘one-up’ each other with our sufferings, but rather to mourn with those that mourn, and lift up the weak knees of those around us. One thing that I have learned as I’ve come to terms with my infertility is that I am having my own custom made trial–which will help me become the person the Lord needs me to be. But just because I’ve never gone thru a failed IVF cycle doesn’t mean I can’t feel compassion and empathy for my friends that have.
As for your blogs Huck–where are these? I’d like to read them. 🙂
PS–the rest of you ladies are AWSOME!!!
Serious amen to that, hucklemist.
I’m not trying to diminish the pain of infertility at all, but there is adoption. I don’t say that lightly. I say that as an adoptee. I like to think I wasn’t the consolation prize, but every bit as “good” as those who arrived in other ways. Some babies shoot out between the mom’s legs. My parents got me in the Skaggs parking lot. Seriously.
There is a finality it infertility, and I think that when a woman (or a man) is confronted with this, they have to come to terms with it and mourn that loss–and it can be as painful as loosing a family member or similar. I would like to point out again, that infertility is a mortal failing, not a punishment from God; just like children are not given out like good behavior stickers. Then number of children a couple has does not reflect their righteousness or commitment to those children.
I know you don’t talk about adoption lightly, and I think some people just think of adoption as a “Plan B” or just something that you can do. It’s not–adoption is it’s own, long, drawn out process that can be just as heartbreaking and painful as infertility. I know from talking with my friends who have adopted children, that they know the children they have adopted are/were supposed to be in their family, they just came a different way.
I too was adopted, and can I just say how many babies and children out there need us? My mom from the earliest recollection always told me that I was adopted, not to make me feel wierd or inferior, but to make me feel special. while my brothers were the children of her body, I was the child of her heart. And to this day, I am the one that she talks to about her problems, and calls first with good/bad news.
I think that more people need to look at this option. I feel so sad for those who refuse it, who think that they would only be truly in love with a biological offspring. It only makes them suffer and hurt even more if they aren’t open to other options. (I understand that finacial obligations can be a burden for many) There is much to contemplate and much to pray about before closing the doors completly on adoption. IMHO
Eden
I ?m not sure I know what ?blogs ? Heather was referring to. I ?ve offered mho here and at a few other places, but I ?m not sure….
Adoption is also an equation of 2..Unfortunately some men have no desire to adopt another ?s child….so how do you choose? What is the proper answer to this?
There are millions of children all over the world suffering and dying..there are mothers willing to hand them to you if you will just keep them alive. But sometimes they seem impossible to reach.
On the other page there are women and young girls aborting their children everywhere …almost as if it ?s a duty.. as if a child has no value at all. The garbage can routine has become common…along with the restroom stall. You can beg them to have the child and tell them you will take it only to hear them say, it would bother me too much if I knew the baby was alive someplace ? or I don ?t want to take another 4 or 5 months out of my life. I need to start my ?career ?. ?
I remember when feminism unveiled her hideous face and all the
damage that was done to housewives, mothers, and children. Feminism marched (marches) with abortion in her right hand, divorce in her left hand, and homosexuality at her side…with a welfare check stuffed in her pocket. I had a friend years ago who had to work at a low paying job and every time things got particularly hard she would exclaim, I hate those bittys who burnt their bras and set my husband free. ? She has always claimed that when the gov welfare programs came into being – at the hands of the feminists – her husband felt free to leave….and did. She said, “Women’s Liberation didn’t free me, it freed my husband and put me in chains I’ll never escape.” She and daycare raised her children.
Kiar, Alison, I say any adoptee who is alive today is a very blessed and lucky person who barely escaped the odds of being dumped in a trash can or flushed down a toilet. You are lucky, not only that your birth mothers had enough soul to go to term and adopt you out, but lucky and blessed that your new parents qualifications ?fit ? allowing you to be adopted….even if Alison did shoot out of a shopping cart at Skaggs. ;>) …how on earth did that happen Alison?
A couple of things. When it comes to mourning I don’t think there is any possible way to qualify the amount of pain by comparing it. People that are caring will mourn with you regardless of whether you lost a gold fish or your entire family and they won’t treat you differently no matter the reason that you are heartbroken. Anyone else would be better to ignore for they will never be supportive or understanding.
There is still a place for good friends who will be honest with you and let you know when it is time to get help. Sometimes people get stuck in one area of their grief and having a person who will tell you when they can obviously see that you are not coping well is necessary. I am sure that it can often be taken as an offense and as if there is an amazing amount of insensitivity but when you are grieving it is very difficult to see clearly. This may get me in trouble but sometimes I think that grief can become very selfish. It is very hard to see outside of your pain and to realize that though others may not have the exact same burdens that you have that they also have incredible trials. When we allow ourselves to feel that we are weighted more heavily than someone else we lose our ability to be compassionate and in doing so we rob ourselves of the ability to heal and grow.
The other thing I thought of as I was reading this was a Stake Relief Society fireside that I attended quite a few years ago. Cheiko Okazaki was the speaker and when she finished she opened the rest of the meeting for questions and discussion. I do not remember exactly all the comments and questions that were asked but I remember that different women in the congregation were talking about family size and working outside the home and those sorts of sensitive issues and one woman stood up and proudly told everyone that she was the mother of many children and on and on and when she sat down I remember that Sister Okazaki chastised her…which was a surprise because this woman said the typical big, wonderful family sorts of things that are heard all the time. Sister Okazaki told her, as well as the rest of us that it didn’t matter if there were fifteen children or two or none, that every single family unit is equally important in the eyes of the Lord. She was very passionate about that and she really gave us a lecture on the nature of motherhood.
Huck….maybe Heather was refering to your comments here…???
As for feminism, you said what I have always believed. Feminisim has done more to damage the cause of women, and these are two different things, than any other social phenomenon. This is what I wish people could understand, by breaking apart families, you are in essence breaking apart society.
I would say that a couple considering adoption, as with any big decision, should approach the matter with prayer and contemplation. I have a friend whose husband who didn’t want to adopt for the reason you stated. Recently, he’s had a huge change of heart, just like that, and they are now in the process. As for people who don’t want ‘another person’s child’, I feel sorry for them and their narrow mindedness. It’s not about biology, it’s about giving that child a home, the blessings of the sealing coventants and eternity and raising that child. There is nothing more important than that.
Amen Sister Okazaki!!! I wish, wish, wish, wish that all members of the church, no matter what their maritial status, child status etc, could embrace this and really believe this. The scriptures tell us that the Lord knows all, even when the sparrow falls. He loves the single person just as much as the lady with 15 kids. And I would like to say again, the number of kids you have, is not a reflection of your righteousness. Kids are not like stickers handed out for good behavior–and to treat kids as such, or to boast about it is wrong!! I know for a long time, I didn’t feel at home in my ward because we don’t have kids. There are sometimes we still feel like this, but now we are at the point where we have more confidence in our place in life and we don’t worry so much about what others might think of us.
Great comments. huckle, I don’t know how to address a man who doesn’t want to raise someone else’s child. I actually understand it…but I also realize it’s just a misunderstanding. I ended up blogging it out.
Rebecca, it is a good thing to give your close friends or family a gentle nudge at times when
they are steeped in sorrow. But I believe too many people substitute a superior condescending and judgmental attitude for the compassion, support, and love that is actually necessary at such times. Another persons pain can be very frustrating …especially when there seems no easy solution, or the person suffering just can ?t seem to shed it. But the wrong approach, no matter how well intended, may actually be worsening and deepening the condition.
I believe that sister Okazaki is very correct.
Even single mothers without children can feel secure in the knowledge that their particular family unit consists of themselves and Christ – and their sisters and brothers in Christ. They are not alone. Any person united with Christ constitutes a family and is of equal importance in His kingdom as any another family unit. Even single childless fathers are not alone…they have a brother in Christ, and children to influence, etc. The ingredients to make a family come from the heart & soul & spirit, not the flesh, and include obedience to His word and his way. Imho
Eden
I really believe that what I call the emphasis on the (overly) praising of ?mothers with children’ in the church is partly a result of the feminist movement. Like I said, when feminism first came out (in my era) I remember thanking God that I was working side by side with my husband in business for ourselves…and went to the office and on the road everyday…so it couldn ?t be said of me that I was a lazy dependent do nothing mere housewife….which was not a good thing to be in those days…very PIC.
My sister had 3 small children and actually had a struggle with having ?failed ? in life because she didn ?t have an occupation. She was so wrong, because she ultimately raised 4 wonderful children…all girls 3 of whom are college graduates and 1 of whom has her own business and works hard and has attended a year of college..and says she will return at a future time.
I believe my sister ?s sorrow from feeling like a ?nothing ? was the equal of my sorrow from infertility. So I do think there has been an effort in the church to raise these mothers up and give them proper station and praise for the accomplishments they have achieved through the nurturing and dedication they have shown in raising their children and supporting their husbands in their labors….I don ?t believe there has been an actual conscious intent by the church to put down childless mothers, even though it seems and feels at times like this is the case – but a real effort to counter some of the damage caused by the feminist movement. I have always had a very difficult time going to RS and still don ?t feel I can ever really fit in on a personal and social level…but I really think the effort to raise the ‘mothers’ was and is necessary during these times terrible times for those who have children to care for in the family.
I have a friend who is able to stay at home to raise her three daughters, 11, 9 & 3 and can do so by providing childcare to other families. To me, her staying at home and watching these others is a bigger burden than my going to a 12 hour shift at the hospital. I get to leave my problems at work, but she never leaves her home, and place of business. Add to this the fact that some of the children she has are not members, and have VERY different values than those that are in her home, and yet somehow, she gets through to them! She is an extremely intelligent woman, with a BS and has had some very prestigious jobs in the past. But those took her away from her family, and she found that to be unacceptable to her and her family.
I agree that feminism has taken a bite out of our families and women are the worse for it! I hope I have never been in a position to “put down a childless mother” I guess I never really thought about it so strongly before.
I was having a conversation with my DH the other day about my decision to quit teaching. For a long time I felt that I could only be considered a “contributing member” of the family if I was bringing home a pay check. I think I felt that way because I was single and had to take care of myself for so long, but also because I actually believed some of the feminist agenda about careers and so on. I am now a homemaker, and truthfully, it’s the happiest I ‘ve ever been in my life. I realized that the clothes don’t fold themselves and the food doesn’t magically apprear (although it would be very cool if it did!!) and by serving and working my home, I AM making a contribution to my family–a family of two. No matter how happy I am, I still encounter people who do not get that I can be happy at home–some of them in my own family too. They also wonder what I do with “all of my time” well, I’m a Mormon–I have lots to keep me busy!!
My point is that a good friend who has been with you for awhile during a hard time may be perceived as being judgmental or condescending because of the grief but if that were the case then why are they considered close friends in the first place? Though I don’t believe that grief is ever fully resolved generally speaking people cycle back and forth through the different stages many times. There are some of the stages that are more emotionally exhausting than others. It can be very difficult to be supportive if one of those stages becomes all consuming and doesn’t ever move into another stage.
Another thing that I think needs to be addressed is our perceptions of things. I have a big problem with my perception (since we are talking about honesty in another thread) and I will often be hurt because of what I perceive was inferred. I have had to learn to ask myself if I am hurt because I am struggling and therefore everything that is said or done to me reminds me of that hurt or if someone actually said or did something that they fully intended to be hurtful. The majority of the time I don’t believe that it is intentional nor do I believe that people are deliberately being insensitive. They can’t possibly know or understand the struggles every person around them has. Though there are women out there that are sad that their family size isn’t what they want there are also women out there that aren’t bothered in the slightest. Everyone is different and there is no possible way for anyone to ever completely avoid every comment that could possibly hurt someone.
I don’t want to seem argumentative but I think that there are so many different layers to this and that we need to be able to look outside of ourselves a little bit…because after all that is what we all want other people to do for us. A little bit of understanding on all sides goes a long way.
It’s also a dangerous trap to fall into the game of “who’s suffering is greater” which I think many people can do. It’s important to not try and ‘one-up’ each other with our sufferings, but rather to mourn with those that mourn, and lift up the weak knees of those around us.
A-MEN!
east-of-eden,
I LOVE what you have shared about being a homemaker for your family. LOVE LOVE LOVE it. There is a spirit involved in this role that is so powerful if we will look for and embrace it. Thank you for sharing your testimony…it really resonated with me and came across with a special spirit.
Rebecca,
iI’m not sure if I am hearing what you are saying exactly...
I agree that some people do cycle back and forth through various stages of grief and sometimes it never really is resolved. I also believe that in some people grief turns into long term depression. True depression can be so debilitating and give a person such an utter sense of hopelessness to the point they cease to feel emotional pain at all (sometimes physical pain as well) and conversely cease to feel any sense of pleasure. I once saw a man whose whole persona was gray…like there actually was a dark cloud surrounding him. The nurses were bandaging his wrist one day as he sat oblivious to what was going on. He had cut through his wrist to nearly the bone with fingernail clippers – in a suicide attempt apparently. He had been hospitalized for several years and his prognosis was not good. After seeing him, I thought to myself…my problems are few..
I too think it does a person good sometimes to look beyond themselves and see the very many levels of suffering that exist. It can make one see the insignificance of their own pain by comparison.
Sometimes the words directed at us are meant to hurt, sometimes they aren’t. I quit trying to figure it out long ago, and now just bluntly inquire if what they are saying is meant to offend me….which usually offends them…can’t win.
Somebody, what’s with the tags…I can’t figure out how they work…lessons will be much appreciated…or a point in the direction to the instructions…
Thanks Much…;>)
hucklemist,
Make sure the radio button that says ‘HTML’ is selected, otherwise your tags will not be read and implemented. Does that help? (I had my tags not work and Alison pointed that out to me.)
I meant huck’s comments! I do not think huck has started any blogs. But any whooo I’ve enjoyed them all just the same!
I guess that I am just saying that if a person that has been a real friend for a long time says or does something that seems insensitive there must be a reason. Most people don’t become insensitive overnight. If people that you feel are friends are insensitive from the beginning then they aren’t really friends…at least not the kind you need to surround yourself with when you are grieving.
I am pretty blunt too. I am too tired to figure people out sometimes. I would say most of the time they are more surprised than anything but oftentimes it leads to better understanding. I have also come to prize people who are honest. I used to prefer that people tell me only what I wanted to hear because I felt that was the only way I could feel accepted but I have slowly realized that hearing difficult things from someone who truly cares about you and loves you no matter what is even better. It doesn’t make me happy for I like to imagine that I am practically perfect but I appreciate those who care enough to approach me when they are worried about me….and I still consider them dear friends even if what they said hurt me because after working through things I have found that they really were looking out for my best interests and I was too far gone to realize it at the time.
Once again, I agree with this “humbled opinion”. And since we’re being quite honest, I have been surrounded by “smug” individuals (namely family members) that continually feel it is not in their best interrest to become too “emotionally involved” with other’s hardships. It is true it can become overwhelming to take on another’s trials emotionally. However, that is why I have had to turn to the one person that I KNOW will take on this great burden. The Savior not only knows all but he “wraps his loving arms around me and comforts me when faint!”
😎
Cool…it worked again …Thanks mlinford……
Yes, Rebecca…smug individuals – smug looks…..I can relate to that…that is a very hurtful tactic some people use to drive you into the dirt without saying a word. My sister is an expert. She does a little twist and jerk to her head while looking down her nose and simultaneously sneering. She can send me into total insanity within seconds with just that one move. Even after all these hundreds of years…I don’t think sibling rivalry ever ends. She’s older – 11 months, smarter, more superior in ever way and knows it. I really love her though…probably more than anyone alive….or equally as much. I really wish she wouldn’t do that. But sometimes she’s right..so I try to overlook it in the long run. I’ve quit telling people about our disagreements (while I’m in the throes of losing it) – and what an uncaring person she can be ..because it is usually always met with..”You know you don’t mean what you are saying… your sister is a wonderful person and at least she raised a family and yada, yada, yada….”…SCREECH…
You are right. Sometimes the people you are the closest to are the people who have the least clue and the least tolerance for your problems…Maybe it’s a group or pack thing…like you’re too close within the group and your problems are a threat so you need to be tossed out for the good of the pack…I don’t know…but it is serious when it happens. And then you have to figure out some way to straggle back in…totally humiliated, embarrassed and humbled…..but not necessarily wrong.. And then life goes on. But it does stick in your craw for awhile. And yes, thank God for the Savior..
Heather, I get so confused..I meant to address the above post to you. Sorry..
I think Rebecca said something earlier
about close friends not being ‘friends’ if they hurt you. I’m new to this and having a hard time keeping up.
I’ll try to be more careful..:)
hucklemist:
“…at least she raised a family?” what are those people smoking? it doesn’t give her or anyone else the right to look down at people that haven’t had the opprotunity to have children!(ohhh she can reproduce, good for her) You can love her all you want, but come on. that is stinking ridiculous. I have a SIL that thinks she is the best thing since sliced bread, and she has one of “Those” looks as well. I have learned how to make her fear me!(jk) but it doesn’t stop her from telling people what a rotten father her brother (my husband) is, or what a crummy mom I am. (I am constantly being updated by my MIL as to her antics, and how much of a screwup she is with her own kids, its nice to have her(mil) on my side.)
Its not fair at all that people expect you to just sit back and take it when she most likely is NOT smarter, NOTsuperior in every way to you. that is a load of horse hooey and you have been oppressed too long. Stand up and fight sister!!
(Sorry, I just got called off of work at 5:30 in the morning, and the cat garped in my bed and I am a little cranky)
Kiar….WOW…you wake right up in the morning…I didn’t mean to push your buttons :>) Sorry about the cat thing…I’ve had that happen…ugh! But really, I really do admire my sister. She’s been faithful, married a hundred years to the same husband, always active in the church, raised good kids, and even got a job and worked for 10 years after her kids were raised. She worked for the State – and with some very educated people (she’s a high school graduate). She was asked by them were on earth she learned all her skills…she told them she wasn’t aware she had any particular skills..
They assurred her she did…..more so than so many other people who they had employed in that job. When we talked about it later I told her “duh…..it’s the church where you have developed so many of your skills.”
She agreed that I may be right….she’d just never thought about it.
Don’t worry, I’ve stood up and fought (attempted) to fight my sister…but she doesn’t fight…she walks off…slams the door and refuses to talk about it….and I mean refuses to ever talk about it. She is not the type to allow little sister to overpower her….Never… But other than that I really like her and greatly admire her abilities. She suffers from other things….she’s never felt like she’s had close friends like I have. I’ve tried to tell her not to worry, because some of my friends (almost all of them) have been pretty flakey and pretty fair weather types. However, I do think my sister really misses having a true friend. But now she has her married daughters, etc…and her life is full. I really love her and miss her. We are not speaking right now…again!
I’m sorry about your situation with your sister-in-law. That has to be extremely hurtful to both of you…and to your husband. I can’t imagine your MIL aggravating the situation..Does she ever attempt to be a peacemaker between you?
Maybe your SIL feels like you have interfered with the ‘bond’ she once had with her brother…maybe she hates him for allowing it…who knows what motivates people to act in the ways they do.
p.s. One of the people who said, “at least she raised a family” was my home teacher…which triggered the death of any real communication between us. He and his wife have about a thousand children. She also can have some smug looks at times. O’well, life goes on. Thanks Kiar, I really do appreciate the moral support. I hope your situation levels out in your family.
my MIL is actually my biggest supporter, and unfortunatly, my hubbie and his sis have never been exactley… close. She is just mean spirited and hides it really well from those outside the family.(She has actually called her mother fat infront of the entire family and brushed it off as “well I am only telling her for her own good!”) and you are totally right about not knowing why people act the way they do! most of the time I see it as a huge insecurity. Especially since my dh and I have been together 8 years and got married in the temple, and her husband is a big fat liar, who spends all of their money on himself. So I guess she is probably very jealous of our situation. I have stopped trying to make excuses for her though since she just seems to throw it back in my face!
I am so sorry that your home teacher said what he did. what a doodie-head (as my 3 year old would say) he must be!!! You should ask for reassignment!
Sorry I had such a breakdown this morning! waking up to cat yuck can do that to a person.
Keep your chin up! My mom always says “the BOM says “and it came to pass!” it never came to stay!”
kiar
I love that saying…I’ve never heard it before. It made my whole day…my whole week…possibly my whole year..
It’s GREAT!!! bigsmile: LOL I knew it was going to be a great day today.!
My own completely unsolicited thought on the matter: Your mother-in-law is not on your side.
I’ve just seen this too many times. What possible good could come from your mother-in-law telling you all the nasty things your sister-in-law says about you? What good could come from her speaking poorly about her daughter?
When someone is intent on “sharing” bad news and bad views, it isn’t support, it’s gossip. She’s mean-spirited and most likely plays your sister-in-law against you in the very same way, so that she can feel important by having the latest dirt to share, so that she can be the center of the relationships by coming between everyone else, and so she can pretend to be “the supporter” by being the only one willing to “share” information that is probably inaccurate and that shouldn’t be shared anyway.
My suggestion is that the next time she starts to dish and dis, you just say, “Mom, I don’t want to spend our time talking about Sue or other people any more. Do you want some ice cream?”
Dismounting soap box.
true, except for the fact that she isn’t the only one telling me what SIL is saying about me. She actually tries to shield me from it, but i have “friends” that get thier jollies from telling me stuff. And she will be honest with me when I ask her, but I try not to, since Sil is always putting her in the middle, and making her feel super guilty. (plus she is sooooo mean to her mom that I wonder why the poor woman even puts up with it) I have been there when “the doody has hit zee fan” and it is not pretty the way that my MIL gets treated by her daughter. It took her and I awhile to form a relasionship after I married her son, because she honestly thought that all daughters and -in-laws would end up treating her that way. my SIL is pretty vicious when you get right down to it, blaming her mother for any wrongdoing in her life. And she is the supposed “spiritual giant” in our family. People outside our family are always saying things like, “oh you must feel so lucky to have such a wonderful person on your side… or, I just loved her testimony on families” (in which she talked about how wonderful she thought her parents were and what a great role-model her brother was and then went home and promptly started yelling at her mom for not making the dinner that she wanted and telling her brother that he was a horrible dad, and her 5 year old neice how fat she was. (who tells a 5 year old they are fat???!!!)
she is unfortunatly two-faced and decietful, and has a lot of pent up anger. It makes me sad, since I have tried over the 8 years to befriend her, and had it thrown back in my face.
I do know that there are plenty of people out there that do try to be the center of attention and do so by spreading gossip. I have been subjected to too many of them. And I do appreciate you getting on your soap box, as it where, since every one has done the same thing at one time or another! But I will take your advice on the dish and dis session: I am all for ice cream!! LOL
Kiar
Which one?…your MIL or Sil is supposed to be the ‘spiritual giant’ and why is that thought by others? Just curious…
I think Alison is definitely on to something here. It seems there is something pushing the bus besides
you and your SIL’s dislike for one another. That’s why I questioned why your MIL was aggravating the situation. It just doesn’t seem rational for her to want to keep the fight going. How does she get along with your husband? I can’t imagine her ‘playing’ that game with him…or maybe he’s the one she’s playing it for…or mayby she’s trying to be all things to all people and doesn’t know how…some variables to consider…
Alison is right. All you have to do to end it is to quit playing….and game’s over. It’s destructive to all of you….But I do think it is worth you attempting to analyze how you got trapped into it and why you have participated. I don’t know how long it’s been happening, but it sounds like it isn’t brand new. Also, I would not ask MIL to verify what your friends tell you that SIL has said. In fact I would tell those ‘friends’ that you didn’t want to hear it. Ask SIL directly when she offends you and ask her why…maybe you can develop a better understanding and relationship if you keep it just between you and her ..I hope so.
Do you all attend family functions together? That must be fun 🙂 Sounds like some I’ve attended.
ohhh family functions are a dream come true. my family-in-law is a mess!! I came from a fam with the credo: “if you don’t have something nice to say, keep your trap shut!” and ths one is, well, distincly different! My MIL gets along wondefully well with my hubbie, since he has been the kid that was always there for her, and doesn’t criticize her in public. If he has a prob, he sits down with her and discusses it gently and rationally, which she responds to in like manner.
(SIL is supposed spiritual giant) We have attempted to remove ourselves from the situation, in fact we moved 3 hours away when SIL and her two babies moved back to town! its hard to not dislike her, but I have tried… trust me! But when she starts to attack my children,and my husband for no reason other than they happento be close by, I kind of take issue with that! Anyway, I have been trying to get out of that trap, and always make sure that her little girls have no clue. I love those two little munchkins as much as my own, and they are all going through a rough time right now, so I guess it really doesn’t matter in the long run!
Kiar,
I still don’t understand why SIL is supposed Spiritual giant…by who? And why…? She must have a great ‘act’ away from home if she is like you describe her. If your dh is as close to your MIL as you describie, that may be some of the problem..SIL may feel resentment because mom likes him more than her…in her mind…sibling rivalry between bro and sis. SIL may feel ganged up on by the 3 of you and feel an excessive need to fight to hold her ground …not to excuse bad behavior, but an attempt to offer some rational. Where is MIL’s husband in all of this?
you are so right that it is an act! (the spiritual giant thing) the people that see her as such are the people that she wants to see her that way (church leaders, missionaries, ect.) they have never seen her rip into her momt he way she does at home. Her husband (SIL) is in El Salvador, where she was deported from 6 months ago, because she didn’t get her Visa stamped. MIL’s hubbie is rarely home, and has always taken a backseat, and when forced to see the issue, took SIL’s side.(until recently) And its not a matter of us ganging up on her, since we now live three hours away from them and have no contact except by phone, and when we did live nearby, bit the bullet and were as nice as possible to her for the sake of all the kids involved. Any sign of a confrontation and she heads for the door. My husband also stays out of it and as far away from her as possible, because he doesn’t want to get hit by the serpant tongue. True that it could be sib rivalry, but when they were kids, she was always treated as the star, and my hubbie took a backseat. (she is incredibly smart, and so was in gifted programs ect.) she really has no reason to feel slighted by her parents in any way, since all they ever did was sacrifice for her. (she may not feel this way… people with a sense of entitlement seldom do)
But anyway, enough about my disfunctional family, does anyone else have anything they want to vent about? =)
I reallly do appreciate all the advice and thoughts and ideas that you ladies have put out there for me. Maybe I just need to suck it up and mve on, and forget about the past. I suppose there is always tomorrow.
Thanks, kiar. I would really like to move on. I don’t mind addressing issues, but would prefer that all parties are present so that all sides can be heard.
So, if anyone wants to vent, let’s make sure it’s not about someone else! :bigsmile: